Tradeshows: Film, Television, and Motion Picture Industry

Prior to our interview, I had intentionally left my voice-recording device at home. Brody Bernheisel- or Brrrrroooooodddeeeeee, as his pirate friends know him as- mentioned prior to our meeting that he was piecing together a studio, in hopes of beginning a modest production company and getting “his hands dirty” in the business. I wanted to test just how far he had come along with studio, if he was prepared for any and all forms of telecommunication situations- from explosion to interview- as well if his studio was ready to take off the ground. From the first time I met him, I could tell that he was going quite far, and I wanted to fully see how far he had come along with his filmmaking, where he was going. I thought it would be nice to be able to say I saw him go from the outside all the way to the top.

I saw Brody turn twenty-two when we interned together at the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 2009. He admittedly knew nothing about baseball (despite the fact that he got to watch the most baseball of anyone in the editing room) while I knew that baseball led to so many more things. Thus, we spent much of our summer in Cooperstown out in left field pushing back the walls, seeing where our art could take us when town closed down for the night. Funny enough, he was the first person I recorded with my voice recorder. I had gotten it for my writing that summer. That summer Brody and I had also fit in a weekend excursion down to New York City and somehow managed to not sleep the entire time: all because we had no where to stay.

This Goshen, Indiana native, wholesome Midwest swagger and all, decided to return to this vision of restlessness the following summer- to disband with stagnancy and make his perspectives known to the filmmaking community and the world. Now twenty-four, he resides in Brooklyn and commutes back and forth from Sesame Street (“The Street” as he likes to call it). He has also directed music videos for indie bands such as The Bear of Blue River, Fair Fjola, and Bird Call. His video for Bird Call's “Waltz in the Snow” vividly showcases his meticulous attention to detail and his brilliant ability to capture the mood of a song and uncover it within the movements of everyday life. He found a way to make a bowl of garlic knots flicker with austere melancholy and inspire childlike wonder. Needless to say, he was prepared for the interview unlike how he thought I was not. I continued to make him think that my lack of voice-recorder was unintentional by showing him a new pack of batteries that I had gotten along the way for it. But even though he did not know as much, he certainly knew much, much more. Although he adamantly claimed that his experiences had yet to afford him the half of what there was to know, he nonetheless provided great insight into the learning process involved in making it as a filmmaker as well as heartening modules of thought to proceed forward with. While our talk began on the unique filmmaking process involved in creating a music video, it moved into not only what defined ideal directors and producers but also what it means for someone to be purely a “creator.” If nothing else, he offered a deep glimpse into how the road to powerful art can first get stared. I am certainly glad he eventually figured out how to work his microphone.

Brennan: Well, as I am more aware now, understanding film is as much about understanding the technology used as understanding the people using the technology. So what trouble were you experiencing with the sound and how did you fix it? Could you also describe your overall studio set-up?

Bernheisel: This is really a make-shift studio set up. I just do the small things on this guy. But I wasn't picking up any sound before because the interface was giving me trouble. Basically, the box over here transfers the sound vibrations in the microphone to the XLR, and then the XLR picks up the sound, processes it- depending on your setting on the box- and then pushes it through to the computer and whatever sound interface you are using to record it. But because I was hooking up the box to the computer with a USB and USB technology is really old, it was having difficulty recognizing what was going on. I must have stole that box like six years ago from college. A little graduation gift, ha-ha…I made some money off of it. And it's no use to them now. But not much to me either. But yeah, the sound device that is hooked up to this computer wasn't made for this program, so you have to kind of jimmy-rig it. But if you fiddle back and forth with the settings for long enough- like with most things- you'll get it to work.

Brennan: What type of recording apparatus do you use then when you are filming musicans, which I understand you have done fairly often on your own?

Bernheisel: Definitely don't use any of this. I use a hand-held device and plug two other microphones into the back. There's a cross-stereo-paired microphone on top too. My buddy just has them now.

Brennan: Could you take me further into the process of how you create a music video?

Bernheisel: Well, we'll come up with an idea- really from just bullshitting around. Then, whatever that idea is, we'll expand upon it a little bit and usually right it down into a script format, though it doesn't even have to be in script format. You could just make it into bullet points, really. After that, we'll approach a band with the idea and I'll pitch to them why I think it would be a good idea for them to make this music video.

Brennan: How do you find band's to pitch to?

Bernheisel: At the moment, I find ones to pitch to through friends. Until this thing takes off at least. And even then, I have to pitch it to them really cheap. I usually don't make any money off of what I am doing with these music videos in the end. But gaining the experience is what I feel like is most important right now. Eventually it would be nice to make some money off of it, but I can't say I really know if that is going to take off.

But yeah, we'll just approach them and be like, 'Hey, do you think this is cool?' We'll put some time on the project as well in our initial talks so they get can an idea of how long it will take. Obviously, it's not all about the idea. And then some will be really invested, while others will be like, ' Meh. We'll do it.'

Brennan: What do you include in a pitch?

Bernheisel: Before I even make a pitch, I'll listen to a song of theirs a lot, probably too much- you know, more than the artist- and when I meet them I'll just be like, 'Hey, this will work well.' I'll prepare different points and be like, 'This makes sense. This makes sense…” And of course, I mean, they wrote the song, so they can envision something right away towards it, that is if I point them with enough sense. Normally, I don't think that artists think about one specific thing when they are creating something. It's pretty vague. So I feel like if I can come up with an idea, its not too difficult to make them dig it. And if they do, then we just roll with it. But really, like I said before, being a friend of a friend is really what allows me to connect with these people initially.

Brennan: I feel like artists normally like to have control over whatever creative vision they bring forth. After all, they put so much time into what they do, so they have at least some idea of what it's about, even if they don't think they can really describe it. What would make them want to mean something different through the vision of another artist that didn't create the original?

Bernheisel: I totally agree with that conception of the artist. Some can certainly like control, even more than their art. I've actually run into some problems from working with artists who were like that. During the whole pre-production process they'll be into it, but then they'll see it and be like, 'That's not me.' They'll look at the final product and say, 'Yeah, this is nice to have; however, I realize that I needed to have more control over your ideas.'

On the other hand, I've done some videos where the artists have genuinely enjoyed seeing a new perspective on their music and getting beyond their preoccupation with what it means to them. So, I think it all depends who you're working with. If it's a person who's willing to accept the fact that their music's going to be looked at differently than what they are putting it out as, then they enjoy it. On been on both sides of the blade though.

Brennan: Are there any specific methods or techniques that you employ to convince an artist to sign onto your vision of their music?

Bernheisel: Not really. I'll sit down, we'll listen to the track, and I'll come at them from a director's standpoint, pointing out what I think would be cool as we listen. The last bigger one we did was with this really cute girl, very small and petite, and I pitched it to her like this: 'Everyone already knows you're small and attractive, cutesy and harmless, so I want to portray you as crazy to give your fans more. What do you think about that?' And she loved that idea. At first. She saw it, and then she didn't like it.

Brennan: What attracted her to the idea at first?

Bernheisel: She really agreed with us first. Her music is more mellow and so the idea for the video started out with us picking a song that was really upbeat, to help bring her beyond her image. When I was pitching this to her, I told her, 'When I think of this song…' –because that's how I approached it- 'I think of how ugly this place is that you're thinking about. And that's why I want to do this song. So I can bring out this ugliness in you. It is so beyond what you are known for, you attractiveness, how nice you are. It's fascinating. This song of yours especially makes me want to go past the person and the artist and bring it down to what she's saying, not even compare it to what she looks like.”

In the end though, she had a problem with the imagery. She was like, 'Well, this isn't me. This song isn't about this.'

Brennan: What did she think it was about?

Bernheisel: She didn't really tell me. It kind of got weird after we approached her with it. When she first saw it, she absolutely loved it. But then other people- her fans, her friends- chimed in and were like, 'That's not you though.' I'm like, 'Well, that's what your perspective of her is. My perspective is completely different.' Especially now after the whole ordeal. If I were to make it over, it would be way worse. It would be nasty, much more gory. But that's just me, you know? I'm still friends with her. She's cool. I respect what she does. I feel like we've patched everything up. It was a very good learning experience. I still want to direct music videos, because I think its cool when you take someone's hard fucking work and manipulate it. And I think if you are able to do a good job with your manipulation, the artist will respect you for that.

Brennan: What do you mean by 'manipulate'? Do you go into a project trying to undercut the artist's vision? Or do you look for things in a work that aren't quite as prominent as others and try to bring them to the forefront? So that people recognize that they are there?

Bernheisel: Yeah, I guess you could say I like to do that. That's what some of the greatest director's out there do. They take a story, manipulate it, make it their own beyond what it is, and make the audience fucking love it, you know? One movie I saw recently that did a really good job of doing this was Bronson. It's directed by Nicolas Refn and it's about one of the UK's most dangerous prisoners. I haven't read this prisoner's biography, or any books about him- and there's a lot out there- but you could still sense that Refn made this guy so much nastier than he probably is in real life. This dude was like the devil. But when I look at him from a movie and know he's not really that bad as I am watching, it doesn't matter. I understand that I am being taken to a different level and enjoy being in that new place. When I watch a film to really watch a film…

Brennan: First, how do you 'really watch a film'?

Bernheisel: Well, I guess it's the difference between watching Dude, Where's My Car? and The King's Speech. You're looking for specific details beyond the immediate action in The King's Speech and the point of watching is probably not to pass out in the middle of it. This kind of watching is definitely generated by an expectation, and doesn't necessarily have to do anything with the movie itself. I guess I've been starting to bring more of these expectations to film watching because I've been reading pretty seriously of late. And because that's also been getting me to writing a lot more.

Brennan: What have you been reading?

Bernheisel: I've been reading Charles Bukowski like crazy. Have you read any Bukowski?

Brennan: I read Ham on Rye this summer.

Bernheisel: Awesome, right?! I'm reading The Post Office right now, which basically picks up where Ham On Rye left off. It's about when he was a postal worker for like twenty years. I'll be done with it at the end of the week if you want to borrow it. If you're reading Bukowski, you have to read The Post Office after Ham on Rye. Anyways, I really like how real he makes how fucked up he is, and how he makes you sympathize with him because of this.

Brennan: More manipulation?

Berneheisel: Yeah I guess I just like being on both sides of the blade. And because he writes everything so directly and fluidly through his own voice, it's inspired me to find more of my own voice, possibly so I can one day reach how he can have so much power in his voice and still just not give a fuck. Right now, I think to write to write down my thoughts, maybe put a conversation between those thoughts, and then just end it, and then start anew. I feel like Ham on Rye is kind of like that, just a collection of short stories. And it's great because he'll go back to a character ten chapters after the one they were introduced in, and you'll be like, 'Oh shit! I remember that guy!'

Brennan: Is your writing visually appealing? Would it translate well to film?

Bernheisel: I don't think it would yet. I'm just really going through my thoughts. I feel like I'm really starting to write how I sound in my head. And feel like that's how I should start. I just need to do it more. I've realized that you really need to write all the time in order to really understand 'you'. And how can you…how can you…write something and make it make sense to someone else when you don't even really understand it yourself? I feel like I have a long way to go still- because I don't feel like writers- or directors for that matter- ever stop. They never get complacent. They want to keep challenging themselves.

Brennan: Are there any major films out there that you would say echo the form that Charles Bukowski uses? Are there any that present a series of short vignettes that work together to trace the experiences and transformations of certain people over a definite period of time, but which are equally self-contained? Do any echo how Charles Bukowski refrains from transitions and doesn't feel the need to explain why certain events follow one another? Do any present characters that just find themselves where they are, deal with it, and move forward? That might just be my interpretation, too.

Bernheisel: No, that's exactly his attitude. He's like, 'I don't give a fuck. And I don't give a fuck that my reader doesn't give a fuck. But I know he does.' And I think that's what makes him genius: He makes people care about him. Film-wise though, I've never seen anything of the sort- or even read any scripts that are like Bukowski. I think it would be extremely difficult to do anything in that style other than a short film series and just release them altogether. I think, visually, it would be hard to follow if it were presented in a more narrative way. I feel though that Aronofsky emulates his style the closest in his directing though . I just watched Pi the other day. Have you ever seen Pi?

Brennan: It's like my favorite movie in the world.

Bernheisel: Well, its kind of like Bukowski. He doesn't transition. He just cuts and starts anew. You know basically two things: This guy, Max, is extremely smart and crazy because of it. These are the things you know and that's really all you know up to the end of the movie. And then you realize, 'Wow. This guy is nuts.'

Brennan: He knew too much.

Bernheisel: So, I mean, I definitely think Aronofsky kind of follows Bukowski's narrative style in his directing. But writing it for the screen would be a motherfucker. That would be so hard. After all, you could write the best 'movie' in the world, and it could turn into a piece of shit because of what happens after the writing is done. In order to make it, you would have to find the absolutely right person to direct it. You would have to find someone who really understands Bukowski's crazy mind and his lack of aesthetic prior to the script. And that's hard enough among the writing community. In order to turn a script into a movie, you have to believe in it so much that you can tell almost right away how to make it likeable to millions of people, you know? I feel like that's what makes a really good director. The director is able to see a script, or even a book, and be like, 'I think someone could really understand this, really visualize this, and really like it.' On the other hand, I feel like writers have more…more of a…more of a fucked up silence. You see a movie and you're like, 'Wow. That director is fucked up.' Just meet the writer!

Brennan: Is being a great director or even screenwriter then just all about having a sense- about being able to read something and automatically envision how it could work on film?

Berheisel: Yeah, there's definitely a different awareness there. Of course, sometimes I'll read something and it won't mean anything to me. I'll just be reading words on a piece of paper. But then there is other writing where I can seriously visualize what's happening.

Brennan: Where you get beyond your vision…

Bernheisel: Of course, I feel like everyone does that, so then it's really more about how you want to throw it out to the world, if you even want to. A whole other thought process starts once you ask yourself, 'Well, am I going to keep this to myself? What am I going to do with this?'

Brennan: When you write, do you primarily like to document, or do you like to create an entirely different reality?

Bernheisel: I think documenting is cool and I totally respect it. But ever since I was little I've been so interested in other people that I often feel compelled to imagine what they do when they go home. I really don't care what they do, but I just want to make a story up about them. I don't want to follow somebody around. But I do like to go off from what I see. It keeps me interested in what's going on…Do you want to check to see if this is recording? It looks like something's going on, but I can't tell what…

Brennan: Yes.

Bernheisel (fiddling with keypad): Ok, we're in business. Should I put on this eye-patch?

Brennan: I mean, if you want to.

Bernheisel: This is pretty cool. I had it for when I had pink eye a couple weeks ago.

Brennan: Do you see the world differently now?

Bernheisel: Yeah I do. New York's fucking dirty!

Brennan: Do you have an alternate pirate ego?

Bernheisel: I wish!

Brennan: Would he have a name?

Bernheisel: Brrrrrrrrrooooooodeeeee!

Brennan: Brodalaya!

Bernheisel: What? Just because there's shrimp in the ocean too?

Brennan: I had Korean for dinner and I had jambalaya sauce with it. While I was eating, I thought that Jambalya would be a good pirate name.

Bernheisel: Oh really?

Brennan: Do you remember if there were any matters to discuss from where we left off with the difficult artist in the music video? Where did we leave off again? Maybe we should just start anew…

Bernheisel: I think we left off in a good place.

Brennan: Then to wrap it up, what was the experiential value that you gained from this work?

Bernheisel: I learned that in the future I need to make sure to lay down ground rules for how I want deliveries to go. You need to make sure that you and the artist agree, first and foremost before shooting even begins, on how director's cuts work, how deliveries are going to run, where you're going to deliver it to, how many people you want to see it. You need to have a plan. Sometimes things blow up and you can't really plan for that. But I feel like if you really want to be a successful filmmaker you should know what your goal is, however simple that might sound. But don't set a crazy fucking goal. You can't make a video and expect fifty-thousand people to hit it in a week. Unless it's awesome. But I say set an achievable goal, and once you break past that, continue to move forward with the greater confidence you'll gain. It was a neat feeling just to get paid. I spent a lot of time on it…While I enjoyed the final product, what I took away from it was mostly what I'm going to change in the next one.

Brennan: So then would you say part of the problem with working with her was that she didn't know how it was going to work?

Bernheisel: Well, I didn't either. I can't put all the blame on her. This was the first big thing that I directed by myself that wasn't school. Not that it was even that big. But for me it was big. It was the first time I got to direct a handful of people and be like, 'Okay, we're going to do this thing!'

Part of the problem was we also didn't get a chance to collaborate together one-on-one as long as we should have. We sat down a couple times and brainstormed but we never got to an outline or anything that in…depth. She was alright to let me do a treatment. So I created one, and she ran with it. But next time, I would really like to collaborate with the artist more and say, 'Hey, how can we cater this enough to you for you to believe it's what you want people to see, but at the same time not change what I want to tell people?' I think that's really hard. I've seen some music videos that really capture what an artist sound likes, and sometimes the artist is the one directing it! But you will eventually find that one person- or that group of people- that you can work with, and your ideas will just click completely. Ours just didn't, and that's fine. She's doing her thing, I'm doing my thing.

Brennan: Where do you see yourself going doing your thing?

Bernheisel: Everyone always asks me that and I always feel like I say something different. Right now, I'm just trying to get my hands dirty in everything. After I see a powerful movie, I want to be a director. After I read a powerful novel, I want to be…a fucking writer! After I hear a bad ass album, I want to produce. I feel like I'm going to have to choose at some point which way to go, but at the same time I kind of step back and say, 'Why though? Why can't you do them all? If there's something you want to do why not put your heart into it- really try it- before you say you can't, and then back out if you don't like it?' That might not be good advice, but…I don't know. I only know the area that I want to go to. Like I think it would be fun to direct, but I think I would like producing a whole lot more. At the end of the day, the producer is the person who all the problems fall on, and so it feels like it's your whole entire project. When the film receives criticism, it's on the producer. I work with producer's all the time at Sesame Street, where I work, and if something gets fucked up, it's their asses. No one else's. Everyone's going to be asking the person whose handling all the finances, all the agent relations why something slipped, and rightfully so. Even if it's the sound guy who fucking blew up the board. I also just want to be the one who makes sure that everything is all good with the people I'm working with.

Brennan: What's an ideal relationship between producer and director?

Bernheisel: One where the producer is a rock that the director can climb all over. The director is the complete vision, and the producer is more the practical side of bringing that vision into being. The producer is the one who's like, 'Yeah, I get the vision; however, I also get that that vision's not going to happen unless this, this, this, this, and this is here and done at this time.

Brennan: What are qualities that you look for in a producer and a director, both in yourself and in other people?

Berneheisel: For any producer, organization is huge since you have so many things flying at you at once. You also have to get along with people and maintain a positive attitude in stressful situations. I've been on both sides of the spectrum. There have definitely been times where I've cracked under extreme circumstances.

Brennan: For the record, I always think Brody has an awesome attitude. But why did you crack?

Bernheisel: A lack of sleep. Taken with too much coffee, too much alcohol, and too much weed. Everything just kind of went downhill…(Turns to roommate Cody playing video games on their couch) What are you doing?

Cody: Don't worry about it.

Bernheisel: See that. I live with a bum. He's been wearing those sweatpants for eight days straight.

Cody: They're my thinking pants.

Bernheisel: But as a director, I don't think you need any of that. This is going to sound crazy, but the direction that I really love is 'organized chaos.' After all, how can you explain how people can make certain people act in a certain way and make it so believable? I believe a good director just has the intuition about how to relate to another person. When they approach an actor, they're like, 'Okay I understand what you need to do because I've been trying to live this thirty days before I even got on set with you, and I think I got it. And I think I can make you get it.'

Brennan: What do you mean by a director 'living with a work'?

Bernheisel: I haven't had much experience with doing this, but I feel like a director who does this is able to focus on the what the mood of a script is- enough to make everyone on set believe that it's really happening. I've been on some sets where after a take everybody is dicking around and laughing. But then I've been on some sets where after a scene no one will be talking. It will be fucking silent. And that to me shows how this one person, the director, made those fifty people believe, 'That really just happened.' I go back to Nicolas Refn on that. He makes everything so believable. And it's just scary.

Brennan: Talk more about this 'organized chaos.'

Bernheisel: Dywhe? I don't know, I feel like a director who works in this way is very organized in his own thoughts- knows what he wants to see and where he wants everything to be- but is chaotic because…again how can you really know how another being is going to react after you tell them to do something in a certain way? Someone could be agreeing with what a director is saying all day but could be doing the complete opposite in his head. And I think that's where the chaos comes from. You can't really control another living human being.

Brennan: Could you talk more about your work on Sesame Street?

Bernheisel: I really don't have any creative input. Right now, I just sit behind a desk and manage the online video content for their website. But I get to see what they're doing, and it's also interesting to see the show from a grown-up perspective.

Brennan: How do the writers come up with stories for children if they're grown-ups?

Bernheisel: A couple of the writers have masters in teaching and early childhood development. But then there's the head writer who's just nuts. He's the funniest motherfucker I've ever met. He's so down to earth, but I think inside that mind of his is really just the mind of a kid. Well, he's a kid to a certain extent, in the sense that he loves to teach. He is actually the best third grade teacher in the world. I've had the opportunity to have a couple meetings one-on-one with him as well and he really listens to everything. In some meetings he won't talk and he'll just listen. I feel like that's very powerful because he'll translate exactly what they're saying in his head while he's listening and then he'll write it down.

Brennan: Is there a real Sesame Street?

Bernheisel: No. When they started, the show was originally based in 1960s Harlem. It was intended to teach inner-city kids who had no parental guidance. They were trying to reach four-year olds who would see a crackhead shooting up in the street and figure out how to teach them the ABCs. It was very complex issue, but there were very smart people who figured it out. And then the show blew up. Now it is shot and aired in twenty-three countries around the world- in their own languages. All that is funded under a huge umbrella that started in New York. Just goes to show how wide and positive an impact televsion can actually make. A lot of people don't know, but in 2003, the South African Sesame Street released a muppet who was born with AIDS to teach children that its okay to hug each other, no matter if you have AIDs or not. There's so many things with negative connotations in this world and I feel that The Street tries to make it a little better. And that's why I look working there. I don't think I would like to write for them, but it's a great organization.

Brennan: What kinds of projects would you like to write and direct in the future?

Bernheisel: The kind that let people know that I am a creator and that a lot of my friends are too- and that we can get together and make some cool stuff from our thoughts.

Brennan: What is different about referring to someone as a 'creator', as opposed to an artist, or a writer, or a director, or other?

Berneheisel: Well, I think that they are all creators. They all physically show you something. Like me and Cody put this couch together, but we didn't create it. Do you feel like you created this couch Cody?

Cody: Nope.

Brennan: Why is that important in today's society? Or at all in human civilization.

Bernheisel: It gets people to believe. When people can see an idea- or imagine it after they read it- people believe in whatever that is. And that's huge because there is so much skepticism about things you can't see. So I feel that when you can see imagination and other ideas through a film or a book, it makes people believe in it in general, whether they like it or not. They believe that it's something, and that the intangible is powerful.

Brennan: How do you plan to put 'organized chaos' onto a screen in the future?

Bernheisel: Well, Cody and I have a long fucking winter ahead of us where we're just going to practice. We have some commercial production lined up in the months ahead. Hopefully that pays off. It might not though. But at the end of the day, whether it's good or not, someone's going to like it and someone's going to want to work with us. I feel like you need to believe that way starting off. You can't just go in thinking that everyone's going to love it. Because they're not. People are going to hate it. But if you don't keep on trying, you're never going to go anywhere. You're going to stay stagnant. We just have to start.

Brennan: Living proof. Thanks Brody.