HD or 24P?

buzzyhaha

New member
I'm thinking of purchasing a more professional digital camera with a budget of not more than $4500. I've researched online, and found that with this budget I can only get a 24P or a HD camera, but not a camera with both functions.

For the films I'm making, I would intend to use a lot of slow motions , and I would want a look which is more like film, but I also treasure the high video quality of HD cameras.

So in that case, should I got for a 24P, or a HD? ( I would really love to have a HD24P, but the reality only allows me to choose for one)
 

DBXMe2

New member
if your canadian, buy through www.vistek.ca

if USA, then I really dont know, but I know vistek does usa as well, if I'm not mistaken.
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
i don't see the panasonic camera

i don't see the panasonic camera

i don't see the panasonic camera. it is not out yet. I just wanted to make a point. They have been creating a buzz for a long time now. When will it be on the street??
 

DBXMe2

New member
its out and has been out for a little bit now, hit Canada not to long ago... trust me the buzz doesnt do it any justice. Sufficient to say, wow.

THe image... OMG! the image
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
do you have one?

do you have one?

maybe i was wrong but i still don't see where to buy one. The link you sent me does not ahve the camera. do you have one? why are you so into this particular camera?

ok, i see the link now to the camera. i like the variable frame rate idea. I saw Bob Primes, ASC working with the big brother version of this camera at a workshop and showing off the variable frame rate as well as the color matrix settings.
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
Color Matrix

Color Matrix

I would like to experiment with the color matrix and see what can be done to create different looks. Do experiments with different surfaces and scenes with different color matrix tweaks. Also would like to see what kinds of expressive progressions might be produced with the subtle color matrix settings. maybe each character has his own very subtle almost subliminal message based on his mental make up that are matched or symbolized by his color matrix settings.
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
color Martix

color Martix

How about using the multi matrix function and the memory stick devices on the High end HD cameras to create unique color set ups for each character and each combination of characters for each scene to enhance the feelings and reinforce actions and changes during conflict resolution and turning points? Intense emotional content could cool down or cool content could heat up... combinations of characters colors could reflect the friction or the resolve... almost undetectable settings or blatant color statements. What do you think?

This may also help you keep the post production guys true to your artistic vision.
 

MarkG

New member
Before spending money on an HVX200 you might want to read what users have been saying about it. For example, it reportedly has a lower resolution than the Sony HDV cameras (which isn't surprising as the CCDs are low resolution), and a noisy picture: then there's the delights of P2 to worry about.
 

laurent.a

New member
the delights of P2

Do you or any body could tell us more about them ?

Kim,

You see, I think the in camera matrix can look seducing, but, on a set, it's a lot of time (waste ?) to use them as much as you think of.

Usually, the matrix are used a bit more a "light way" : global settings for a scene. More precise job has to be done in post because it's not easy to match shots on a set, when you work on one precise shot and don't have the ones that will cut with it, aside.

Color timing and postproduction is more valuable, since you have the edited shots and you can work on how they cut much better this way.

Just my 2 cents...
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
vector

vector

I am not just talking about the new HDV cameras and the little panasonic. I am talking about the higher end HD cameras. I know a little more about them because I keep going to all these workshops by ASC members and Universitys.


I say get faster at making the matrix adjustments or make them in pre production. You can save them on a memory stick. possibly have pre set standards for starting points.

As far as how much you can adjust the image. respectfully I disagree.

That is not what some high end users say according to an article in the December 2005 issue of American Cinematographers “Survival in Space" by David E. Williams Stephen McNutt CSC uses HD to shoot Battlestar Galactica.

McNutt says " I really like the look Joel Ransom created on film, but he didn't have the level of image control that I have in HD. Joel is a fantastic cinematographer, but as anyone working in TV knows, the control of that image through post makes a huge difference. We've embellished the look he established; it's even more edgy and contrasty, and we're achieving it mostly in camera rather than in post."


" The precise color control offered by HD is not only a visually interesting aspect of Galactica, but also an essential story telling tool."

McNutt uses the Multi Matrix image control to creaet complete color adjusted looks for planets and characters.
You should read this article. It might give you some insights into what some cinematographers are doing with HD.



They were just using HD to save time and money "...but they soon found that HD also offered them some intriguing creative advantages."


Truly
Kim
 

MarkG

New member
Do you or any body could tell us more about them ?

Well, I haven't used them, but I believe you're currently limited to about four minutes per card which means you need to drag someone else along to keep copying the footage from the cards to a laptop, and then hope that the laptop disk doesn't crash or provide a tape drive to back it up. Also, one guy on another forum was complaining that transferring video from P2 to his laptop drive and importing to his editing program took just as long as capturing from tape would have done. Another said their P2 cards kept dying.

I can see it might make some sense in news shooting when you can live with only having a few minutes of footage and you may be able to get the shots you need into the editing program faster, but I can't see any sane news camera person wanting to shoot with an HVX200 rather than a full-size camera. XDCAM-HD seems like a much more practical solution to me in most cases.

Otherwise you're paying a ton of money to shoot with a camera that reportedly produces a lower resolution image than a Z1 (which itself is lower resolution than the XLH1) with noisy footage, nominally recording 4:2:2 video but with CCDs that aren't large enough to actually justifythat color resolution in HD.

If the posts from unhappy users are true, I really don't know what Panasonic were thinking when they designed the camera. A lot of people who were eager to buy it before it was released eventually seem to have bought XLH1s instead after they saw what it was really like.
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
Buying an HD camera

Buying an HD camera

I think when i am going to shoot i will prepare and preparation will include consulting with some of you here. To keep my budget tight because I have no money and I will be using other peoples money I am going to plan plan plan and rent rent rent. I will rehearse everything before I get the cameras and lights. The schedule will be tight and at a fast steady pace and a rhythm that is rehearsed. Actors will rehearse each scene until we have it down to what we feel is good before we start.

Then I will LEASE the camera equipment and lights for the scheduled shoot and then turn it in when we are done. I can't afford to own one and the way things are changing so fast I don't want to own one. Next month the y might announce something out of the world at NAB and I just bought a 30,000 camera package!! No way. That money can go into production.
 
M

markcheng

Guest
I'm with you, Kim!!

Instead of those P2 cards (4 minutes???), I'd sooner rent one of those Firestore HD gizmos that store your footage via firewire in realtime while you film... They sound wicked cool...

mc
 
F

Filmosity

Guest
I was going to drop my 2 cents in here last week. Markcheng got to the firestore thing before I could of course! I think it'd be wise to wait for the firestore, though I do wonder, will the firewire standard be able to handle the real time encoding of an HD signal? I can't imagine it will be an uncompressed HD signal that gets recorded to the hard drive. I'll have to look into it.
 

Kim Welch

Senior Member
Staff member
from what I have heard from several sources

from what I have heard from several sources

from what i hear you can go directly to hard drive now.
 
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